Ubuntu Linux losing popularity fast. New Unity interface to blame?

Posted in Tech blog on November 23rd, 2011 by Pingdom

Don’t panic Ubuntu fans but your favorite desktop Linux distribution has fallen to fourth place in DistroWatch’s latest ranking.

Ubuntu has been overtaken by Fedora, Mint, and openSUSE. Mint now holds the number one spot in all of DistroWatch’s rankings going back at least a year, which leads us to wonder why.

One reason behind this reversal of fortune for Ubuntu could be the change of default interface in version 11.04 or “Natty Narwhal”, released in April 2011. With the new Ubuntu came Unity, an interface previously seen in Ubuntu Netbook Edition, and Gnome was relegated to an option.

There has been quite a bit of controversy surrounding Unity. Now it seems like Canonical, the company behind Ubuntu, may be paying the price for the change. Let’s look at the numbers.

Mint’s rise to the top

We charted the top distributions since 2005, as ranked by DistroWatch. In doing so, we excluded a couple of distributions that only made a brief appearance in the top five: Mandriva dropped off after 2006, PCLinuxOS only made an appearance in 2007 and 2008, and Sabayon only showed up during 2007.

Here’s what it looks like from 2005 until now for the current top five Linux distributions:

Based on the DistroWatch numbers, Ubuntu’s market share has been declining for years, and has seen a remarkable drop in 2011. Linux Mint, on the other hand, has seen a huge leap in market share this year and has become the most popular desktop distribution. Is this a side effect of the controversy around Unity?

To give you an idea of how drastic the recent changes are, let’s compare the most recent statistics (for the last 30 days) with the average number for 2010:

Ubuntu is down 47.2%.
Mint is up 105%.

Note that even though the relative share of Ubuntu has dropped during this period, the total number of hits on the distribution pages at DistroWatch has almost doubled.

Adding that to the mix makes Mint’s popularity even more spectacular.

Comparing the top five: Mint is growing fast

If we focus on the last 12 months, we can see how this compares between the top five distributions: Debian, Fedora, Mint, openSUSE, and Ubuntu. First we see how they compare to the total of all desktop Linux distributions as reported by DistroWatch:

Besides the remarkable growth of Mint, which is again obvious, it’s also interesting to note that the top five distribution’s share of the total has increased quite significantly over the year.

Here are a few highlights:

Mint’s share of the average hits per day for the specified periods has almost doubled, with an increase from 5.6% to 10.12%.
Ubuntu has fallen from 5.4% to 3.82%.
Debian’s popularity has shrunk a bit from 3.42% to 2.95%.
Fedora has gained from 3.97% to 4.88%.
openSUSE has also gained some, moving from 3.35% to 4.83%.
We should also point out that the total has increased during the 12-month period with about 21%, possibly indicating a rising popularity of Linux as a whole.

What we’re comparing here is really the average hits for each distribution over the four periods. As you can see from the first chart, the difference is even more noticeable over a longer period of time.

Then we dig into the relationship between the top five distributions:

In this chart, a bar represents each distribution’s share out of the total for the top five distributions for the period. It gives you a good overview of how things have shifted in the top five over the last 12 months. Here the change for Mint and Ubuntu is even more clear:

Mint has gone from 26% of the top five to 38%.
Ubuntu has lost quite a bit, from 25% down to 14%.

Again it’s clear that Ubuntu is the big loser.

What does Google say?

We have used Google before to review at the state of Linux. So again we turn to Google Trends to chart Linux and to supplement DistroWatch. Since this is based on search statistics, it’s more to gage the “interest in” the various distributions, or mindshare, if you like.

The downward trend for Ubuntu is clear to see also with Google’s tool but the rise of Mint is also visible. Mint is overtaking openSUSE by mid-2008, and Debian and Fedora about 18 months later. Towards the end of the chart, in 2011, there’s a definite spike in search volume for Mint, according to Google Trends.

Time for Ubuntu to take notice

It’s obviously way too early to say whether Ubuntu, in actual use, is declining or not. However, if this is any indication of which way the wind is blowing, it’s time for Ubuntu to take notice.

What we also can’t say for sure based on this research is why this change in popularity is happening. It’s possible that it’s due to how the DistroWatch numbers are put together, and it’s possible that Unity is having some effect.

It does seem certain that the timing of Unity’s introduction coincides with the decline in Ubuntu’s popularity. And according to DistroWatch, the widening of the gap between Mint and Ubuntu is accelerating.

Finally, we have to congratulate the Linux Mint team. They are clearly doing something right with so many Linux users choosing their specific distribution.

Update (2011-11-25)

Some of you asked about what the situation for Ubuntu would look like if we included the other Ubuntu distributions in the statistics, like KUbuntu. We went back to the numbers and here’s the chart with all Ubuntu distributions added into the Ubuntu category:

The popularity of Ubuntu increased until about 2007 but then it’s been in decline relative to desktop Linux in entirety. Since 2010, the decline for Ubuntu and the rise for Mint is not much less dramatic.

Tags: charts, debian, distrowatch, fedora, foss, graph, linux, marketshare, Mint, opensource, opensuse, results, software, study, trend, ubuntu, unity

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147 comments

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HumpityDumpity

Definitely Unity's fault. i can understand the need for Unity to be uniform across all devices but on a desktop it's so crap. Yes, Canonical shot themsleves in the foot.

maxmate

En,Linux server is my favoriate host.

eram0861

Unity sucks, plain and simple.

KelvinLau

mint is basically ubuntu with a different skin

Raven2099

it'll take some getting used to.. wish i could resize it and move it.. maybe soon

BryanBasil

I think Unity was the best thing to happen to Ubuntu, and I've been using it for 7 years. If you want gnome so badly, just install it. Remember, you're still free.

danijel973

@BryanBasil Have you actually tried that? I mean, installling gnome2? The very point of this discussion is YOU CAN NO LONGER DO THAT, which means, no, you're not free, it was taken away.

3r0s

@danijel973

Installing Gnome 2 where?

On newer Debian or Ubuntu?

Also Debian ditched Gnome 2, which is dead.

And Xfce performs better than Gnome 2.

I use Ubuntu since 2009 and i always used the Gnome version.

I used Lucid 10.04 (Gnome 2) until a month ago, but I had to upgrade to 12.04 coz printers are not well supported in 10.04.

I replaced Unity with Gnome Shell, but Nautilus hangs every time it starts, also in Gnome fallback mode.

Unity is faster than Gnome 3/fallback.

I tried many other distros with Mate or Xfce or Gnome 2, but so far Ubuntu and Xubuntu are the ones that really delivers facts, not just words = fried air.

I have been TOTALLY against Unity since the beginning, but few days ago i saw how Unity can keep a desktop PC clean from apps clutter, and i understood Ubuntu point of view with Unity.

I saw Ubuntu running on Android and i use it as my media center at home, and the Unity is just perfect for those tasks.

But now i find how it is also good on the desktop.

FREEDOM for me means not to be locked to one software vendor (Microsoft) that delivers all the shyte it wants for big bucks, but being able to choose to run WHATEVER i want on my PC that SUITS me.

Now Ubuntu is the one that SUITS me.

I also use Xubuntu, and it is so far the best Xfce experience i had, after pure Debian.

When bringing up a complaint, one also has to provide some sort of solution, otherwise it is just nagging and whining.

So my solution was using Xfce, but now i mastered this Unity as well.

So, if you excuse me, what is your point?

craigwessel9

@danijel973 @3r0s Ahem? MATE Anyone?

craigwessel9

@danijel973 @3r0s Ahem... MATE Anyone?

danijel973

@3r0s In fact, your "Linux is great for everybody" is delusional, and no, I'm not a "victim" of Linux, if anything Linux is a victim of its own developers' arrogance. I can afford simply buying something better. Linux cannot afford users buying something better, especially with 1% of desktop users and falling. Linux developers act as if they are doing users a favor, which is an extremely unhealty attitude, especially if you are a user. Right now, Linux is slower than Windows, less reliable than Windows, and basically has no advantages whatsoever; it became slow, fat, fragile and, with Unity, poorly designed. There is no reason why anyone who is not a sysadmin with very specific needs would use Linux on desktop at this point. This is unfortunate, because several years ago (with Ubuntu Jaunty) things were different. Linux was lighter, faster, more reliable and *better* than Windows, the only drawback was lack of software. Right now Linux desktop is a living corpse; *everything* is better than Linux at this point.

3r0s

1 Like

@danijel973 Amen.

Go buy what u prefer.

Yr continuous "me me me victim" sound delusional.

danijel973

@3r0s I don't see MS or Apple "dictatorship" as any worse than Gnome development team or Canonical "dictatorship". In any case they can decide to just ruin my entire computer experience and leave me with serious problems. The main difference is, Linux developers find me worthless because "i got it for free anyway", while in case of MS and Apple I do vote with my wallet so I have a say. As for the price, if you compare equally specced environments the prices are very similar, and I don't usually aim at the low end. It's not really a garden of roses with Apple, either, but I can do all the stuff I did on my linux box and also run Adobe. As things stand now I'm closer to buying the 15" retinabook than I am to experimenting with fubared window managers on Linux again.

3r0s

@danijel973 I know the Microsoft and Apple dictatorship.

Windows PCs at least are affordable, but Apple are disgustingly expensive for the average guy pocket.

I would ask a loan only to buy a house, not an Apple computer.

That's why there are so many Linux distros with different UI to choose from.

Linux Mint has Mate (Gnome 2 fork) but i prefer Cinnamon (Gnome 3 re-designed).

I for now stick to Ubuntu distros because they are the ones to best support nearly any hardware out there without hunting for tweaks and drivers.

Pure Debian still needs to be beaten under submission. :-(

Google vs Canonical?

Read this:

http://www.zdnet.com/the-truth-about-goobuntu-googles-in-house-desktop-ubuntu-linux-7000003462/

3r0s

@JohannWagner @danijel973 I also use Linux Mint but wirh Cinnamon, i prefer it to Mate.

It might not be complete yet, but it's very good already.

danijel973

@JohannWagner I don't think going to Mac is an overreaction. In fact, I'm kicking myself for not doing it sooner because on Linux, I had to use inadequate substitutes for the software I needed, which runs natively on Mac. An example is Adobe Lightroom, for instance. I do miss some good things from Linux, such as Nautilus, but all in all Mac works just great for me.

JohannWagner

@danijel973 , I completely feel like you about Ubuntu and Unity. I lived in anguish for several months too after the option of Gnome 2 was taken away in Ubuntu. I used xfce during this time, which is better than either Unity or Gnome3 (even in its fallback mode), but does not approach Gnome 2 in functionality.

But going over to Mac might be a bit overreacted. Mac might be based on Linux as well, but when it comes to policy, Apple is every bit as bad as Microsoft (and much, much worse than Canonical). I would never buy anything Apple, ever.

But have you tried Linux Mint with Maté? I warmly recommend it. It's really a polished Ubuntu, and Maté being a fork of Gnome 2, it's every bit as functional as it. I can hardly tell the difference (you won't be able to run wallpaper changers for now though). I'm very grateful to the Maté team for continuing the tradition of Gnome 2, and for Linux Mint for incorporating it in their distro (but I think you can install it in Ubuntu as well).

Now I can work again on my computer, without having to resort to desperate measures such as switching over to Mac!

danijel973

@3r0s

>Any reason to be this petulant?

Why, of course there is. I'm never this ticked off without a good reason. You know how many Linux users bitterly resent Microsoft and would never use Windows because they think MS is taking their freedom away, treating them like a shapeless, choiceless herd and stuff? Well, that's how I think about Linux now. I had a working Linux environment for five years and they literally took my choosen environment away by destroying it so that I have only *their* favorite option to choose from, and I was left in a situation where I had to migrate several computers to something else because the thing I was running for years no longer worked. I actually prefer Windows to Linux now, that's how ticked off I am. I feel like Linux developers have absolutely no respect for users like me who didn't just play around with Linux, but used it as a default environment for both work and personal stuff. What Microsoft did to its users with Vista is *nothing* compared to what Canonical did with Unity. It's a completely fascist move. I hope Google makes a proper, ubuntu-like Linux distribution and completely destroys Canonical, because that would serve them right.

3r0s

@danijel973 Clap Clap Clap.

Any reason to be this petulant?

Mac is older than Linux, hence more mature.

Windows runs more apps than Mac and Linux together.

Yes, what apps, a lot of clones and useless stuff, just cluttering the disk.

Not so long ago, when Mac was emerging for a masses use, it was subjected to some sort of rejection, like Linux now, and there was nearly no app working on Mac.

It seems the history repeats itself.

With Mac you DON'T have the freedom to update software (like the Java incident) when in dire need of being patched, leaving a perfect system exposed to the perfect disruption.

You use Mac, He uses Linux Mint, She uses FreeDOS, They use Ubuntu, I use what suits me at the moment and makes me do my job in the shortest leaving me free from getting my eyes sore in front of the screen to go out and do something else.

danijel973

@3r0s

>Mac is even closer than Windows !!!

Closer to what? If you meant "closed" you are wrong, because you can run much more stuff on a Mac than on Linux, and Windows can run more stuff than both, so it's more open. If you meant I couldn't tweak it as much, you are right, but then again I don't *need* to tweak it as much because it's already made properly. And yes, I have linux tools installed via macports, and it all works. Closed indeed...

>What sort of freedom do you have with Mac?

I can run all my apps in Unix environment which, unlike anything on Linux at this moment, runs without a glitch.

And yes, commercial software such as Lightroom runs on a Mac, so for me it is actually signifficantly better than Linux. For all intents and purposes it behaves like Linux that was adopted by someone with a brain and made to work properly. Which, basically, it was, just s/Linux/BSD/

3r0s

@danijel973 hahaha

Mac is even closer than Windows !!!

What sort of freedom do you have with Mac?

Apple always said that Mac doesn't get a virus.

hahaha.

UTOPIA.

After the Java and Flash logger.

Mac users should wake up.

I like many things of Mac, but the price is the real TURN OFF.

If you don't like Canonical (I'm not their employee, BTW) then there is Parsix which is independent pure Debian Gnome 3 made easy like Ubuntu.

Just have a look at http://www.distrowatch.com/ and pick up the distro that suits you.

NOBODY, not even the doctor, told you to use Ubuntu.

While on the other hand, Windows is the real pushed down every body throat without permission.

And Linux is getting prominent also thanking Canonical.

As i said, facts not sterile words (= fried air).

And for now Canonical delivers.

danijel973

@3r0s And yes, I should add that, after Canonical played that little trick of theirs on me, I decided to move away from linux, at least for serious work. I'm writing this on a Mac.

danijel973

@3r0s

>Installing Gnome 2 where?

Nowhere, it is impossible because Gnome community killed it, coinciding very suspiciously with Unity.

>Also Debian ditched Gnome 2, which is dead.

My point exactly.

>And Xfce performs better than Gnome 2.

No it doesn't. It is close but contains too many bugs, and some solutions are inelegant. I prefered gnome2, but now I have no choice.

> So, if you excuse me, what is your point?

It should be obvious to everybody who actually read my message. There is very little actual freedom if options are forced down your throat, and the poster who said one can freely choose gnome2 is obviously wrong, since gnome2 was intentionally destroyed in order to force users down gnome3 and unity paths. Apparently some people thought that, if people had a choice, too few would choose what they were making.

3r0s

@BryanBasil It seems to me that Mac fathered Windows Vista/7, Unity, Gnome3 taskbar as we see nowadays.

3r0s

@BryanBasil Unity way to open only one instance of an app locked to the launcher is the best way to keep any computer user to open too many times the same app.

Example: in the office where i do IT support, i saw that 90% of users are not waiting for their Windows box to complete the settings at logon, they start to click here and there to open their mail, file manager, etc., ending with more than one instance open for the same app.

Then if they modify a file they opened 3/4 times at the same time, they start to get sync issues when saving that file because the system detects different running version of that file.

Even worse with programs like Outlook.

Unity does not allow this, unless you right-click on the launcher and select "open new window".

This is keeping the desktop tidy and functional.

I now see the usefulness of Unity on the desktop, not only on a mobile/touchscreen device.

3r0s

1 Like

@BryanBasil I use Ubuntu 12.04 at works and Xubuntu 12.04 at home.

I have to admit that i started to understand this Unity, which is much faster than Gnome3.

I haven't tried 12.10, i normally stick to LTS versions for stability and no surprises, and since I started (in 2009) to use Ubuntu, i always have been satisfied with this OS.

Now i am 50% for Unity and 50% for Xfce, otherwise i use Unity with the xfce-panel installed for quicker window switching.

brazz

Of course, the adoption of Unity began to delve seriously Ubuntu, but in fact when you look good, it is a trend that took shape before and whose cause is often biased attitude, and almost hegemonic Mark Shuttleworth contemptuous towards the community he had managed to create. In particular, a policy of being marginalized and often not entirely in the Linux community or overtly commercial example Ubuntu One and the shift towards a system of integrated Market instead of creating a commercial structure different, such as the integration of Amazon in the dash (why not Microsoft!), eg its immediate agreement with Microsoft on UEFI instead of joining the community on this Linux-Linux Foundation has fortunately found a solution for all ...! In fact, for well-known and experienced the rise of Microsoft since its inception, before Windows 1 (product archi buggy yet we had done hair pulling), I would say that there is gigantism syndrome and power (note that I'm not talking about Google). The specificity of Linux is above all to be fully integrated into the world of free software, who does not like these kinds of wrens accessing or wanting access the imperial status. Since the dictatorship years IBM 50/70 then followed by that of Bill Gates, we have very good reasons for this. Without radical change in strategy, we do not see hardly draw, Ubuntu will continue to lose market share in favor of more environmentally friendly distributions of ethics customers.

amigeva

Unity might have been a wrong turn for Ubuntu. It would be interesting to check, among Ubuntu users, how many went with Canonical and Unity and how many kept Ubuntu but switched to Gnome 3 or Gnome Classic (like myself for example)?

ericsou

i absolutly HATE unity with a passion , gnome classic for me

3r0s

@ericsou

Agree.

mrgoose

For those who dislike Unity intensely but do not want to leave the Ubuntu community (yet) here are couple of possible workarounds that might offer you the familiar look-and-feel you require.:-

1. sudo apt-get install kubuntu-desktop

This will install the beautiful-looking and Windows7-like KDE4 desktop. The start button is in the right place. The pop up applications menu, the task bar and status area all make sense. In fact most people I show it to ask if it's a new version of Windows! Most of KDE's notorious early issues have been resolved. Basically KDE4 was released long before it was ready. But it's OK now.

pros:- Familiar look-and-feel; very feature-rich; very pretty; highly customisable; shed-loads of eye-candy; lots of extensibility; super KDE apps available (though you can run these on other desktops too); ; my girlfriend likes it - so does my bro.

cons:- Can be a bit resource hungry; you really need a decent machine, especially if you want to use all the whirling desktop cubes and wobbly windows and stuff; there are still a few annoying minor bugs that remain unresolved.

Not sure if this is a pro or a con:- After you have used KDE 4 for a while, and customised it to your liking, all other desktops, including Macs might seem crude, or lacking in functionality. My g/f has to use a Mac at work and frequently comes home complaining about all the "Things the bloody Mac won't do!"

2. sudo apt-get install xubuntu-desktop

This installs the simple but stable XFCE desktop. This is fairly customisable but generally has the look and feel of a plain vanilla Windows 95 desktop. XFCE can be beautified. However, my experience is that many XFCE users are not interested in beautiful desktops. They just want to look at the web or read their email etc., with the least amount of hassle or delay.

Pros:- Very stable, very simple; very familiar look and feel; does not hog resources; doesn't get in the way; Linus Torvalds uses it; my mum likes it.

Cons:- It's a bit plain-looking.

FWIW, I chose option 1 (KDE) for my desktops/laptops and option 2 (XFCE) for servers, for most of my customers and for elder family members. I have just one customer still determined to give Unity a fair go, and even he's considering dumping it.

HTH, best wishes, G.

3r0s

@mrgoose

If you install xubuntu-desktop on Ubuntu, you end up with double apps from Xubuntu set.

If you have Ubuntu and want Unity out of the way, just install XFCE4 package and switch to it permanently in the "Login Screen".

Xubuntu is a little too minimalistic for a medium powerful desktop, so it's better to install Ubuntu and then XFCE4 package on top.

If you install kubuntu-desktop on Ubuntu, you end up with double apps from Kubuntu set as well.

Just directly get Kubuntu so no Gnome/Unity custom apps installed.

mrgoose

@3r0s

You raise some interesting points. I guess you are right if application purity and low disk-usage is an issue for you.

However, like many users, I tend to pick and choose a goodly mix of GTK and QT based apps, and have no problem with some extra apps/libraries lying around. I use Thunderbird and Firefox - that come with Gnome/Unity. I have yet to meet anyone, even among KDE diehards, who actually uses KMail or Rekonq! I also use Gimp, GNUCash and Zim. There is nothing KDE-side to match them either IMHO.

But I prefer KDE tools such as Konsole, Dolphin, Kate and K3B to Gnome-Terminal, Nautilus, Gedit and Brasero. Then there are oddball KDE apps such Kaffeine that easily enable DVB without all that MythTV palaver. Not to mention KID3 (id3 tagger), soundKonverter (CD ripper and LAME/FFMPEG front end for audio), KRename and Krusader (a KDE incarnation of the good ole Midnight Commander). And in KDE, it's relatively straightforward to give all apps a reasonably common look and feel. It is also reasonably easy to remove applications one doesn't need.

However, my post was primarily aimed at users who have *already* installed Ubuntu, and wanted quickly and easily to upgrade to something more appropriate to their needs, whilst retaining access to their data and all their familiar apps.

So directly getting Kubuntu isn't really an option for these people because that means reinstalling everything. They would also need to copy and restore their home folder(s). Also means they would have a new app-set to learn without any familiar apps to lean on while they did so.

Best wishes, G.

3r0s

@mrgoose @3r0s good point.

3r0s

I find Unity much better on Ubuntu 12.04, but if you need an interface like Gnome Panels or Windows XP, then you need the Xfce interface. How to steps: 1 - install xfce4 and xfce4-goodies packages. 2 - at Ubuntu logon screen, select the Xfce session. 3 - you will have a Windows XP like interface with all the apps from a standard Ubuntu install and no doubles. It works like on Windows 8 where you can choose the Metro interface or the Classic Windows XP interface.

3r0s

@3r0s a good reason to stick to Ubuntu is that it supports most of the hardware out there, including USB internet sticks.

On the contrary, Debian (Ubuntu father) needs to get all the non GPL drivers added manually. Not very appealing for Linux novice, while Ubuntu, beside Unity, still is quite straight-forward to install and use.

ericsou

@3r0s well different distro for different usage , to debian lack of prop drivers i'd tell you , maybe but much more stable without all the 'buntu bling (not that i dont like it on my desktop) , debian is much more at it's place in a rack where ubuntu does great for users

3r0s

@ericsou a friend of mine said to get ubuntu server and then install via terminal the desidered GUI.

In this way, he told me, he's got Gnome 3 (with all Gnome apps set) without any Unity non sense.

bnext

NOTHING beats the simplicity of menus.... and Unity is way more complicated in comparison to gnome 2.I can't see why anyone would like Unity - such nonsense. It's like what someone said in a post here (really made me laugh) but he got it right - logging into your desktop is now logging onto your cellphone - oh what stupidity - really - how could people be naive enough to swallow such crap?!!? They're trying to blow away the nice serious desktop experience - I think they're off their rockin minds... it seems so immature this new fling for unity - how silly... it's hard to belive they've arrived at such conclusions - deluded birds looking for more money.... so why not compromise on things and ruin everything we've worked for up until now... geez - what's this world coming to?!!?

Where is the sense to this big black screen in unity that is so imposing? Everytime you want to find something - here it comes... All you have to do is use SYNAPSE - and everything is at your fingertips... what more could you ask for...?!! I don't need unity.

anonymous_bored_person

I was relieved in April 2011 when I learned that I could go back to the old desktop. In November I was dismayed to learn that Unity prevented Synergy from moving the mouse from Ubuntu (on the left) to my Mac (on the right). As a result I use Ubuntu only when absolutely necessary, and use my Mac as my "default" at home. During the same time, I'm liking CentOS (which I'm using at work) more and more.

I've gone from being a rabid fan of Ubuntu to looking for a way to switch to another distro at home--maybe Mint or CentOS?

JohannWagner

You bet Ubuntu is losing fast popularity. I got really disenchanted when both, Ubuntu forced Unity down everyone's throat, and Gnome came up with the horror of Gnome 3.

I used for a while Xubuntu. XFCE is not bad, but it's nowhere near Gnome 2, so I was very happy to switch to Linux Mint 13 with Maté, when it came out not so long ago. Maté is really good, and I can highly recommend it to people who loved Gnome 2, and generally GUI's in which you can actually work, instead of just using it for entertainment, like a smartphone or tablet.

I feel really sorry for Ubuntu and that they lost their minds. I was a faithful user of Ubuntu for years. I think it's foolish to aggravate so much the very core users...

Neliton

1) Distrowatch is not a reliable statistics source since it can be artificially manipulated (as it seems to be the case); 2) If you want to use google trends, try comparing "Ubuntu" vs "Linux Mint". Ubuntu is a unique name, most people don't say "Linux Ubuntu"; 3) A good statistics source is wikipedia traffic: http://stats.wikimedia.org/wikimedia/squids/SquidReportOperatingSystems.htm. How does Mint do there among Linux distros? In fifth, below Debian.

As for the comments, I just can't understand all the whining and hate towards Unity. If you don't like it, just change the desktop!!! I'm pretty sure XFCE would fit for most people as a Gnome 2 replacement. It's fast, light and pretty close to Gnome 2 in terms of features (much closer than LXDE).

I know there's still some work to do on Unity, but on Ubuntu Precise it runs beautifully fast and STABLE, plus the new feature, the Hud, is quite handy once you get used to it. The overall experience is simply great.

Bottom line, Ubuntu is doing fine.

JohannWagner

@Neliton I concur with danijel973: Unity is a horrible interface, completely unfit for a computer on which you actually want to do some work. Very cumbersome, very unintuitive; I couldn't get used to it no matter how much I tried.

You're right that that XFCE would work somehow as a Gnome 2 replacement. That's what I did for a while, use Xubuntu. While not bad (and somewhat better with 4.10), XFCE hasn't the functionality of Gnome 2. So I could hardly await Linux Mint 13 with Maté, and indeed, I'm not at all disappointed. It pained me to leave Ubuntu, which I loved, after so many years, but Canonical's latest actions really frustrated me. As long as they keep Maté running, there is no going back to Ubuntu for me.

danijel973

1 Like

@Neliton I don't know in which paralell universe you tested Precise, but it is *far* from being stable. Its user interface is unstable, unreliable, full of annoying bugs and stupid design choices, and worst of all, IT CANNOT BE REMOVED. The freaks who designed it made sure of that. Even when I tried to install mate desktop, all the unremovable ubuntu defaults kept interfering with it so half the UI services weren't working properly. When I tried to remove some of the ubuntu services that kept interfering, the whole desktop catastrophically failed, leaving the system frozen at attempted logoff.

And the alternatives are also buggy; cinnamon desktop kept crashing and restarting every few hours of normal use. I tried Mint, which couldn't migrate my user configuration and left the system unusable. Finally I threw the towell and installed Lucid on the system. Now I cannot use the newer version of the apps I need but at least the system is not fubared and everything works as it's supposed to.

Bottom line, Ubuntu is doing very, very "not fine". In fact I think this is the end of Linux desktop, permanently. The people who develop proved themselves to be unreliable and I don't really think anyone is going to trust these people again. If there's going to be a linux desktop that has a future, it will probably be developed and maintained by Google. I am personally disappointed not only with Canonical but also with Gnome, and the entire linux community babble of linux being better than windows and having a bright future proved to be self-serving nonsense. No way in f*ing hell is it better than windows. I have never seen a windows system with the kind of instabilities, nonsense and autistic disregard of the wishes of the user base. Linux desktop today is ten times worse than Vista was at its worst. And I'm putting that very kindly. It is utterly useless and I hate it. I had to rollback years of Canonical idiocy just to get a stable linux system again.

Neliton

@danijel973 My "parallel universe" is using Ubuntu for everything (work and fun) in a daily basis, not just to test it. It runs clean, fast and stable in two different machines. I also have a Xubuntu 12.04 in a low specs machine that runs amazingly fast and stable, and it's pretty much Ubuntu old-school (Gnome2-like).

Now I realize you are just a troll and not a real Linux user, because many things you say don't make sense. Or else you'd know you can install many desktops environments in your Linux system and that they DON'T interfere which each other in anyway. You would also know that if you'd like to get rid of Unity (i.e., not having it installed in your machine even as an option), you could just install Xubuntu or any other distro based on XFCE (for example). And that it makes no sense migrating system configurations to another system, though you can migrate applications configs.

Anyways, I wish you a good life as a windows supporter and a linux hater...

danijel973

@3r0s

Xfce is very good; however, gnome2 was better. Nautilus is much more powerful than Thunar and although I like the way xfce is thin and light, there are some things, such as the ability to create shortcuts easily, that I miss from gnome2. But those are not major drawbacks; most of that stuff can be easily fixed in next versions of Xfce, it's nothing that one or two developers couldn't fix with a few well placed lines of code. It is actually prettier and more elegant than Mate, and ten times more stable than Cinnamon, and, as an alternative to Unity, I think Xfce is the way to go right now.

danijel973

@jasondhoward When we're at it, I'll make a brief comparison of win7 and linux. Linux is more hands-on. When you need to script something it's easy, straightforward and quick. On windows, I guess it's all possible but I hate the way it is all done. On the other hand, Aero is three generations ahead of any window manager on Linux, and that is a sad fact. It is beautiful, polished, there are absolutely no bugs, no twitches, nothing. Compiz, in comparison, is bug-ridden, unstable, prone to crashes, twitches and all sorts of weird behavior. Also, the problem with Ubuntu are the constant kernel updates which require rebooting, and distro changes every 6 months, which invariably mess up ma samba and cups settings so I have to reinstall printers and network shares all over my LAN. I really like having linux on my machines, I am very productive with it and all that, but some things are really annoying. For instance, every now and then there is a kernel patch or a regression or whatever that reduces my motherboard's USB to v. 1.1, and this slows down all file transfers to a crawl. Every now and then Canonical introduces unnecessary changes that mess up the way I work, and now they actually mandated Unity, which is useless. It's the only window manager that actually actively prevents me from doing my work efficiently, and at one point I decided I had it. I cannot afford them to screw up my main system on a regular basis while I try to use it for work.

3r0s

1 Like

@jasondhoward @Neliton @danijel973 I completely switched to Xubuntu.

Its Xfce desktop GUI is fully customizable with the mouse (right-click then properties).

Not even Gnome ever done anything like that.

Xubuntu has a minimal set of apps pre-installed, is not bloated, so any apps can be added.

Xfce can run any Gnome or KDE specific apps.

So for me Ubuntu/Unity loses for either Kubuntu or Xubuntu which uses Ubuntu repositories but without the work unusable Gnome 3 and Unity.

danijel973

@jasondhoward This video card overheating problem, I don't think it's just you, I had one video card burn out two years ago, and I had two laptop video chips fail, all runnng linux. Also, under nvidia diagnostics my passively cooled graphics card shows much lower temperatures under windows7, compared to ubuntu. The order of magnitude is some 10-15 degrees C. I would venture a guess that Linux draws more juice from the GPU by default and if you don't have first class cooling (and most laptops don't), it's a problem. Something definitely isn't optimized. I literally had GPU crash from overheating regularly playing Open Arena under Linux; it's cool, stable and actually quite a bit snappier under Win7.

jasondhoward

1 Like

@danijel973 @jasondhoward I am still on Ubuntu 10.04, and it is pretty stellar... I did have an issue with it hanging on startup occasionally .. .but that was because of nividia sux @ linux support ... But other then that... ubuntu flies when it comes to graphic support, I use combiz and 3D cube regularly. However, my video card just fried, but it was a 4 year old laptop so I have another laptop on the way... I actually do what you do but the opposite, normally when I am doing web work, I develop under linux, photoshop on windows via VBOX and dont have any issues. I still have Windows on dual boot for those occasional moments i need windows... So far Mint has been awesome though on an older laptop I put it on... I cant complain... I haven't had to many stability issues with Linux other then hanging on start up sometimes... but my other machine doesnt have that problem... I think its certain hardware thats an issue... but who knows..

danijel973

@jasondhoward

Since my initial comments about Unity I tried many possible solutions but ended up with Win7 as the host OS and xubuntu as the virtual OS and this combination seems to work for me. Win7 is actually very polished and stable, and some things work much better than under Linux, for instance everything graphical. Their main drawback is that they are not unix, so I run a virtual linux with all host drives root-mounted, so I can manipulate files from a unix shell and still have a stable GUI. So, Windows alone wouldn't cut it for me, but combined with a virtual linux they are in fact very good. I have apache and openssh on the virtual machine, connected via NAT to the host machine's ports so when I access the box I actually get linux services. The tragedy is, after all the blunders from the Linux community, I had to go to Windows for overall system stability and reliability. And I don't really like Windows in general, they contain too much overhead and tend to clog the system with time.

jasondhoward

@Neliton @danijel973 Danijel is right, Unity sucks! I had it on my system (Fresh installed) for about 25 minutes ( i have also tried installing it on other machines, and had nothing but issues with it... so perhaps it may work on your machines.. but i haven't had to much luck with it... I ended up switching to Mint + Mate and Its working much better!! Although I still can't see how Danijel can say windows is better than linux... I think once you find the right Linux OS to meet your needs then everything will be smooth... it sounds like you should try a fresh install of linux mint + mate and you shouldn't have any issue...

Dan2

@Neliton I like/love Ubuntu 11.04 . Had no problems . I even started to like the unity interface and of course you can switch to the classic interface. What I can see however is that long term its all obsolete .The world is going to mobile Tablets fast and desktops and their O/S's will soon be dead. I also use an Ipad2 and ..well its very different ..and is the future . Sadly my days of writing java apps are clearly numbered if tablets are the way ahead.

danijel973

2 Like

@Neliton I believe you work for Canonical, because nobody else who ever tried Unity could write what you did and keep a straight face. It is exactly that self-congratulatory tone, "it's fine and you're a troll" tone that makes me hope Ubuntu fails, and Canonical with it. Having the latest forced-Unity releases work like total crap on my machines is bad enough, but listening to the likes of you makes it ten time worse.

Coppertop

@Neliton

"I just can't understand all the whining and hate towards Unity"

I'll be happy to explain it to you, then.

1) Global menu and HUD

Whether you like it or not is a secondary issue, but it doesn't work with LibreOffice by default. Which is a fail and a large inconsistency that shouldn't happen when we talk about applications installed by default. Moreover, HUD is arguably the most useful with LibreOffice, because that's an application which makes large use of the menu and it's used almost exclusively with the keyboard (unlike, for instance, Gimp or Inkscape), which makes keyboard based access to the menu desirable for LibreOffice. Yet, it's not there. In an LTS that many of us will not upgrade until 5 years from now.

Yes, I know that you only need to install one package, but that makes it an even bigger fail, because either the support wasn't stable enough to be included, or someone "forgot" to include it. In both cases, the HUD shouldn't be there, because it doesn't support all of the applications installed by default.

2) Overlay scrollbars

Google used this. Once.

Besides, they're inconsistent because sometimes they're on the inside of the window, sometimes they're outside, which is a design mistake. Minor? Maybe, but obvious. And yet, it's there. Oh, and IIRC they don't work with Firefox, which adds up to the OOTB inconsistency of the desktop.

I know that you only need to remove one package. Most end users will either not know that, or they will be afraid of doing that.

3) Window buttons and title bars

Maximized windows' title merges with the panel, which makes its window buttons and menu unavailable completely when it's maximized, but not in focus. So we have different system behavior for each of these states:

a) maximized focused

Title bar merged with panel and menu/buttons on the panel

b) maximized unfocused

Title bar merged with panel, menu/buttons unavailable since the panel is taken by non-maximized focused window's menu (without buttons)

c) non-maximized focused

Title bar not merged, menu on the panel, buttons on the title bar

d) non-maximized unfocused

Title bar not merged, menu unavailable, buttons on the title bar

e) Dash opened

All menus unavailable, panel taken over by dash (for no reason), window buttons for maximized windows unavailable since taken over by dash as well.

I hope this speaks for itself. And if you have 2 monitors, it gets even worse, because sometimes it just gets lost in what and where to display.

4) Hide and seek

If the 3rd wasn't enough, they decided to hide everything and reveal on mouseover. So you won't know in which of its many states the panel is at any given moment, unless you *just know that*, or you take your mouse on a trip to the top edge of the screen.

That's just a list of the biggest issues with Unity from the top of my head. The biggest of all is the idiotic idea of merging the title bar with the panel and worst of all, there seems to be no way of disabling that.

Neliton

@Coppertop Thank you for the effort, but I think you've completely missed my point, which is: if you don't like Unity, use another desktop, so there's no need for whining.

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